Diagnosing Public Figures | Donald Trump / Narcissistic Personality Disorder Controversy


Welcome to my scientifically-informed, insider look at mental health topics. If you find this video to be interesting or helpful, please like it and subscribe to my channel. Hello, this is Dr. Grande. Today’s question is: can mental health professionals diagnose public figures? And also we have some other questions kind of related to this topic. We see some recent controversy over individuals talking about Donald Trump and mentioning Narcissistic Personality Disorder and Antisocial Personality Disorder. And I’m also going to look at this video at the Goldwater Rule, which, of course, is tied in with this whole question. So, first I’ll start here with Donald Trump and these recent things we’ve seen. So, we see that Kellyanne Conway’s husband, – his name is George Conway – has been tweeting information and really been saying a few things about Narcissistic Personality Disorder and Antisocial Personality Disorder, referencing Donald Trump on Twitter. He took pictures of the DSM, the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual, of the symptom criteria for those disorders, put those on Twitter, and he’s also said that Donald Trump is a liar. He said Donald Trump is the “worst kind of dumb” – that’s a direct quote. And he’s also accused him of having “word salad”. This is when somebody kind of puts together words with no rhyme or reason. It’s actually a symptom of a few different disorders, including schizophrenia, but either way nothing to do with NPD, Narcissistic Personality Disorder, or APD, Antisocial Personality Disorder. So, we know that George Conway is not a mental health professional – actually, he’s a lawyer. But he’s not the only one who’s been doing this. We also see that some mental health professionals have been doing this. We see a book by Dr. Lee – Dr. Bandy Lee – called the “Dangerous Case of Donald Trump”. And there are other psychiatrists that helped write that book, as well. So, we see kind of this group of psychiatrists that some people kind of refer to as a little “rebellious” because they are violating the Goldwater Rule, which is part of their Code of Ethics. I’ll talk about that in a moment. But the reason they give for violating this rule is that their “duty to warn” is more important. So, this gets into a lot of complex issues, but either way we have a lot of individuals looking at Donald Trump and trying to diagnose him or trying to suggest a kind of… Maybe not so subtly, suggest that he has certain disorders. So, before I get too far into this discussion, let me quickly review what the symptom criteria for these disorders are. Right, let’s just take a look at the symptom criteria. For NPD, we see a grandiose sense of self-importance, having fantasies of success, power, wealth, the ideal love… Feeling special or unique, requiring excessive admiration… Having a sense of entitlement… Tending to manipulate other people… Having a lack of empathy, being jealous of other people, and appearing to be arrogant. That’s NPD, Narcissistic Personality Disorder. Moving over to Antisocial Personality Disorder, we see here somebody who violates society’s norms. Someone who lies, someone who’s impulsive… Being irritable or having aggression… Having a reckless disregard for your own safety or the safety of others… Being irresponsible and having a lack of remorse. Both of these are Cluster B personality disorders in the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual, so they’re in the same cluster as Borderline Personality Disorder and Histrionic Personality Disorder. So, the question at this point might be: why do I care? Why does this matter if these individuals want to try to diagnose or to kind of strongly suggest the Donald Trump has some sort of diagnosis? Why does that matter? Well, to say that Trump has characteristics of narcissism is one thing. And I’m not saying that. I’m really staying out of this whole part of having an opinion about somebody else’s mental health on this topic. But either way, that’s one thing to say that that is one type of behavior. So, if we look at, like, the Five-Factor Model of Personality, for example. Openness to experience, conscientiousness, extraversion, agreeableness, and neuroticism. Remembered through the acronym OCEAN. If somebody wanted to comment on those personality traits, they want to look at a public figure and say, “well, they look very conscientious” or “they appear to be introverted low extraversion”, that’s all just personality. I don’t necessarily recommend that, but again, that’s one area that’s different than applying a diagnostic label. And even within the realm of personality, I’d be more comfortable if a mental health counselor or mental health professional was taking a look at this as opposed to somebody with no qualifications. To assess somebody’s personality or to consider what potential mental health symptoms might be present or not present. So this idea of casually commenting on someone’s personality, this isn’t what George Conway is saying. He’s invoking the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual, essentially weaponizing the DSM. Diagnoses aren’t intended for use in the political arena as weapons. Rather, they’re used to help treat people for potentially serious disorders. Now, if you want to look at the psychiatrist and the other mental health professionals that are doing this… Well, okay, they are authorized to use the DSM, so that’s a little different. But let me take a look at the rules of diagnosis here so we can kind of clear up who has the authority to do this – to diagnose – and under what circumstances. So, the rules for diagnosing can actually get a little bit complex, but to simplify it: First, somebody has to have legitimate authority to diagnose. George Conway is a lawyer, not a mental health professional. He has no legitimate authority to diagnose somebody. Now, Dr. Lee, she does have a license – as far as I know – so she would have legitimate authority. Also, the person you’re diagnosing has to be your client. So, this is where really everyone else runs into a problem. Even the professionals run into a problem here because none of them are treating Donald Trump as their client. So, consider this analogy: If I run into somebody on the street, and I just walk by them and I see that they’re crying, And they’re saying that they feel hopeless and worthless, and they’re more sad than they’ve ever been… I might think to myself – or I might even say – “you look kind of depressed”, “you appear to be depressed.” But that’s different than saying that somebody has Major Depressive Disorder, or Persistent Depressive Disorder, or any of the other disorders that may align with the symptoms they appear to have. Because those come with consequences. We know that those have other associated characteristics, and that’s beyond the evidence I have available in that moment. I can certainly say, “well, you appear to be sad” or “you appear to be hopeless”. You’re saying you’re hopeless. That’s different than saying, “I’m going to give somebody an official diagnosis that’s intended to help guide their treatment.” Another problem here is… The truth is that mental health clinicians aren’t really good at diagnosing, even when somebody is right in front of them. We have a scientific discipline, but it’s not as scientific as we would like. Often people who come in to be diagnosed are misdiagnosed. Again, even when they’re in front of the clinician, and they are that clinician’s client, and that person does have a license. We’re not really great at that under those circumstances, so what makes anybody believe that we would be great at diagnosing from afar? Just looking at somebody on television, or YouTube, or other sources and saying, “Well, I think they have this disorder because I’m viewing this behavior on the screen.” I guess what I’m saying is, when you have a shaky foundation, and you want to build a house, that’s one thing, but don’t – don’t go building a skyscraper, right? I think that’s – I think that’s the problem here. We have to look at how solid the science is in the first place with the DSM. I tend to like the DSM, but it’s far from perfect. We have to look at that science, and what kind of evaluations – what kind of statements can we make – based on that science. What’s safe within, you know, a degree of error? And what’s not safe? Another consideration here – and I’ve talked about this before – is the difference between a person and a persona. Now, we know that public figures do have a persona and that persona may be equal to who they are as a person, or it may not be. For example, when I hit the record button on this camera, I know that I’m recording, and I probably act a little differently than I would act in real life. In my case, maybe not a lot different – it’s hard to say. But, either way, who I am as a person is different than my persona. So, in the case of Donald Trump, the persona that we see may be different than the person that he is. A clinician just looking at these videos – or whatever they’re looking at – has no way of knowing what the difference is between the persona and the person. Some other considerations here are around the nature of NPD and ASPD. It’s convenient for a non-professional to kind of, again, take pictures of these in the DSM and say, “Oh look, I think this person has them; I think Donald Trump has them”, or whatever. But you don’t know the context, and the context is crucial. The years of training, specifically at how to diagnose and assess people, well, it turns out they actually matter! All that training and education and supervision and licensure means something. For example, again, it’s expedient just to take those pictures and make statements, but Narcissistic Person Disorder, NPD, was almost dropped from the current version of the DSM because we’re so unsure about whether it’s a real disorder. It turns out that it seems to explain what happens on one side of narcissism – we call that Grandiose Narcissism – but it fails to explain or really talk about Vulnerable Narcissism. So, NPD isn’t something you can really say, “Well, that’s definitely a clustering of symptoms that we’re going to see often and it has some sort of value in terms of treatment.” It is including the DSM, so yes, technically, it can be diagnosed, but again, it doesn’t hold together well. So, we have to be careful about just looking at something and saying, “because it’s in the DSM, it must be valid, and we should go ahead and use that.” Now, how about Antisocial Personality Disorder? Surely this one exists and everybody agrees that it exists. Well, we certainly have more agreement around APD than we do NPD, but here’s some interesting things about APD that may kind of shed some light on this. First of all, to have APD, somebody would have had to have symptoms of another disorder, called Conduct Disorder, before the age of fifteen. So, you can’t even worry about APD until you know that. This is why it’s important to take a detailed history. This is why it’s important that somebody actually be your client before you try to diagnose them. Now, this is interesting because George Conway specifically said that Donald Trump seemed fine years ago in other televised appearances that he made. He looked at him being interviewed and said, “he seemed fine then.” Well, if he was fine then, and you’re saying now he has Antisocial Personality Disorder, how does that make sense? There’s no such thing as late-onset Antisocial Personality Disorder. Or for that matter, there’s no such thing as late-onset NPD. Now, I think he was talking about other symptoms. Like, he didn’t directly say it, but he kind of indicated some symptoms of schizophrenia. I mentioned that before. Like, word salad is a symptom of schizophrenia. So again, just really highlights the need to have proper training before making all these statements. One thing that doesn’t make sense here is making all these statements without understanding mental health diagnosing. Right? If you don’t understand the context, you don’t have the training, it makes sense to me that all these technical errors would be made. And these are actually really important. Just because an error is technical doesn’t mean it’s not important. Now I’m gonna switch gears a little bit to the ethics behind this. So you may be thinking, well, this guy George Conway, he’s not a mental health professional, so he’s not bound by ethics. And actually, that’s true. But what about the professionals who are making these claims? They are bound by ethics, and we do see in several ethical codes that you can’t diagnose somebody who’s not your client. We see in the NBCC – that is one code of ethics that governs my profession, professional counseling. We see it in the American Psychiatric Association, and this is referred to as the Goldwater Rule. I mentioned I would talk about this before. And this says that psychiatrists can’t share a public opinion on what’s going on with somebody in terms of their mental health without conducting an examination and having proper authorization. And we see something sort of similar with the American Psychological Association. So, that Association would be looking at psychologists. So, we see various rules and various codes of ethics that make it clear that diagnosing somebody who’s not your client is, in fact, unethical. So then the next question would be: why is it unethical, or should it even be unethical? So, again, it’s important to note here that, with the Goldwater Rule and the psychiatrists, including Dr. Lee, that have kind of broken that rule, they’ve used the “duty to warn”, another ethical mandate, to get around that. So, what they’re really saying is that Donald Trump, in essence, poses some sort of danger, and they have an obligation to warn the public. So, they might not view themselves as really breaking the rule because they have another rule that they’re prioritizing. That’s kind of another issue – I won’t get into that too much, but it is important to note that that is their position. That’s how they’re kind of getting around this. So, back to the question, though: why is it unethical? Why are these rules in place? Well, for one thing, of course the diagnosis would often be inaccurate. That’s a real problem, again, if you’re trying to diagnose from a distance. But another reason is the stigma that it creates. What people have said – essentially, I’m kind of simplifying this – But people have said, “Trump is bad”. There’s a lot of different other adjectives that can be used there, but that’s what many people have said. They say Trump is bad. And now we see this idea that – people are saying Trump has MPD and APD. So what happens here when people kind of do the math, is that NPD and APD become bad. Trump is bad. He has these disorders. Therefore, these disorders are bad. Now, of course, that’s faulty logic, but that’s what people are doing. So, by trying to diagnose Trump from a distance, not only is there no way to know if that’s valid, of course, but it ends up stigmatizing people who have the disorders. People who have NPD and APD are human beings. They go in to seek treatment. They want to recover. They want to meet their goals. Mental health professionals, including mental health counselors, help them to meet those goals. And now we have, because of this whole diagnosing from a distance situation, people being stigmatized. Now, Trump is a public figure, and public figures expose themselves to scrutiny, including opinions and speculation. What I’m saying here is that diagnosing takes it too far. Diagnosing moves past what we really know. It’s beyond speculation. When you diagnose somebody, you’re kind of saying they do have this grouping of symptoms. They have these symptoms that, again, tend to cluster together, and we simply don’t know that. That’s beyond what we can get to in terms of good practices and assessment. So to kind of further illustrate this, I’m going to use an example. I’m going to use a Person A, Person B example here. So, say that I’m walking down the street and I see two men, Person A and Person B, and Person A is punching Person B. What do I know based on that observation? Well, only that. I know that Person A is punching Person B. I don’t know why. I don’t know any of the circumstances except for what I can actually observe. So, if I were diagnose, if I were to say, “Okay, I think Person A has schizophrenia, and he has command hallucinations that are telling him to punch Person B.” Well, schizophrenia comes with a lot of other associated characteristics, like I talked about before. So you’re gonna see disorganized thinking, you might see visual hallucinations, not just auditory. There are a lot of characteristics that go with that disorder. So, I’ve taken my observation and I’ve converted it into a diagnosis of schizophrenia which now yields all kinds of other potential information. But this is not reasonable because I don’t know that it’s schizophrenia in the first place So you might say, well, “if schizophrenia isn’t the logical conclusion to draw from that behavior, what is?” “Maybe something like intermittent explosive disorder?” “Would that be a better diagnosis?”. But again, you run to the same problem. Even though that seems like a better explanation – I would agree – you still can’t figure that out just from that behavior. What if it’s all an act? What if Person B wanted Person A to punch them for some sort of insurance fraud? Or what if they’re making some sort of video and this is, again, all just acting? How can I know the diagnosis and how can I even know their mental states? Well person a You might say, “Person A must be in a rage and Person B must be fearful.” But if it’s some sort of scam, then neither one of those mental states would necessarily be there. So, not only do we have to be careful about diagnosing, we have to be careful about saying that we understand what somebody’s thinking. We don’t know what’s going through somebody’s mind. We don’t even know what they’re feeling. It might be reasonable to say that Person A is angry and Person B is fearful based on just the evidence of the punching behavior. Okay. It’s reasonable, but we don’t know for sure, and certainly we can’t extend that to some sort of diagnosis. Now, there are other opinions on this issue, of course, right? So, to kind of reflect both sides of what’s going on here, some people say – in the case of Donald Trump, anyway… They say, “well, indirect observations of somebody’s behavior may yield the same value in determining somebody’s mental state.” And what they’re really saying here is that an in-person interview might not yield any more information, especially if somebody’s been a public figure for a long time. Well, this can be argued both ways. I can see this point. If somebody’s been watched by the media a long time, then it might be something to consider consider that an in-person interview may not yield a lot of information So, this is kind of an argument on the side of these people saying that Donald Trump could be diagnosed or it’s fair to say something’s going on there. I don’t agree with what they’re doing, but that is kind of one argument that’s been made. The way I look at it is, we really have to make decisions based on evidence, and we have to weigh that evidence. Watching and commenting on behavior is certainly fair to do, and it’s more useful than believing that we understand somebody’s mental state and then labeling them with a diagnosis, and then, of course, potentially increasing stigma. This really doesn’t help anybody. And also, there is kind of a structure in place. There’s a system in place if mental health professionals do have a concern about Donald Trump. It’s called the 25th Amendment. So if the 25th Amendment were enacted, then Trump would have a mental health evaluation, right? So, there is kind of a remedy in place for mental health professionals that’re concerned. I don’t think that diagnosing people outside of what we have in terms of ethics is the way to address any situation that may be going on. Now, something else that I think very few people consider in this whole situation… And this kind of strikes me as funny, that so many people were worried about mental disorders in Donald Trump, But many don’t consider: what if he really does have these disorders? Does it matter? What happens to people who have MPD and APD? Again, they’re human beings. I know a number of people have these disorders that simply get on with their lives. They simply go to work. They have a family life. They just do what people do. We’re really kind of jumping to another conclusion by saying, “Well, if they have NPD or APD then they must automatically be dangerous.” Where’s the evidence to support that? Yes, Antisocial Personalities, who are much more so than NPD, is associated with criminal behavior, But that doesn’t mean that everybody with the disorder is a criminal. That’s just one of the symptom criteria. So this just goes back to what I was saying. What if they’re right, right? Does it matter if somebody has a disorder like NPD or APD? What are we supposed to do if we believe that Donald Trump does have this disorder, other than follow the system that’s already in place? Again, the 25th Amendmant. Right? There’s no other remedy. Are we supposed to be fearful or panic? We’re supposed to write letters and say “don’t be president anymore”? I’m just not sure what the what the real remedy is other than what’s available in the law. I guess, ultimately, what it comes down to is if somebody believes those disorders matter. I mean, if they believe those disorders make people do bad things, Then you would vote accordingly, right? That’s the only thing that you can really do in the system that I can see. Right? You just base your vote on available evidence. So, I think this is kind of an interesting debate. I know people get all fired up about this debate. Some people are for Trump. Some people are against him. And of course, it does seem to me that more people that are for him think that nothing’s going on with his mental health, and the more people that are against him believe something serious is going on with his mental health, right? So there is a political line and there’s division there. But I can also see that a reasonable person who is trying to look at this situation in a fair way would say, “Okay. Some of the behave are worrisome.” I can appreciate that, and I can similarly appreciate how some people would look at his behavior and say “I’m not worried”. I try to appreciate both sides of this, but either way, it makes for an interesting debate. So, on that note, if you have any thoughts on this subject, I do think it could contribute to an interesting dialogue. So, if you agree with me or disagree with me, or agree or disagree with these other people who have made these different commentaries, please put those opinions and thoughts in the comments. As always, I hope you found this description of the controversy with diagnosing public figures to be interesting. Thanks for watching.

100 thoughts on “Diagnosing Public Figures | Donald Trump / Narcissistic Personality Disorder Controversy

  1. Appreciate your ethical approach. Funny, however, that when you read the list of narcissistic traits, all of these have been demonstrated in Trump's public behaviors, over and over again for years. And armchair psychologists are not qualified to name it, technically. Thank you for Illuminating the "duty to inform" angle by which a licensed psychologist or psychiatrist may come to an informed conclusion, diagnostically. You remained very neutral politically which is very professional. Thank you for your insightful videos. Question: In your opinion, what percentage of people with NPD, that would be diagnosable, seek treatment? And what would typically prompt them to do so? Thanks!

  2. Dr. Grande, you can't seriously condemn these psychologists who have prioritized preservation of public safety. I understand that it is impossible to accurately diagnose him and why, but is it not the responsibility of the professionals with the correct tools to inform the general population AT LEAST of the dire consequences of someone who PRESENTS themselves in such a mentally unhealthy manner holding such an esteemed and influencial position?

    If it boils down to fact vs speculation, then it is a FACT that he has and continues to gaslight those who trust him, just to name one specific act. Whether a diagnoses can be concluded or not is irrelevant when his persona is in power to do such. It would be a fatal mistake in my opinion to allow such or trust the current laws and protocol are infallible in preventing such danger. It is a fact that gaslighting is a characteristic of npd, and that characteristic in itself is 1: a mental health concern for those subject to such abuse as well as 2: posing a massive humanitarian health concern, both mental and physical, which would warrant ample need for licensed professionals to override their own protocol.

    As far as diagnosing Trump, however, informing the public of such dangers can be accomplished without giving him an official, concrete diagnoses. But my question is this:
    Can a mental health professional speculate without inferring diagnoses? Of course. Does it become a diagnoses to speak publicly of such speculations though…?

    And as far as what good it does to even blast him to those who may not be familiar with his particular flavor of insidious tactics, it has influenced at least a few (better than nothing) to reconsider why they support him. If it only changes one mind of several million, it can be said that it was worth it on a humanitarian level.

    I know you can't and won't post your personal opinion of him or your political affiliation; it's unprofessional and you may lose your audience, meaning you couldn't continue to put out the vital content that you choose to share, however….
    You could speculate upon his persona, as you did for the fictional character representations of The Joker. I mean, every video you make comes with caveats and disclaimers galour lmao And just to be frank, his character fits npd criterion preeeety well.
    Could be possible he's just a puppet, that someone is holding a gun to his head and forcing him to make a fool of himself publically as a distraction from the true source of insidious authority, but would it matter? Burst his persona, free the minds hypnotized by the tactics.

    And yeah, Conway threw in "word salad" in his freelance diagnoses, but you and I both know why. It's a tactic meant to throw the targets off kilter. It's a type of fallacy I can't remember the exact name of at the moment, to use non sequitur and unorganized statements to disorient the discussion. I'm sure Conway threw it in as a subtle jab to Trump's ego in this case too.

  3. Great opinions very fair and logical impressive and convincing very healthy guidelines for public who really wants to understand thanks God bless

  4. I really enjoy your videos, but found this one very frustrating because it seems so pollyanna.

    I think you’re saying what you “should” say and not what you “think” and it seems you’re letting a dangerous person off the hook because it’s the “ethical” thing you’re obligated to do.

    You’re being ethical to the point of being unhelpful. I’d rather listen to George Conway, on this matter, who isn’t ethically bound to being pollyanna, and can state the obvious.

    I’d like to administer some truth serum to you and see what you really think because it’s pretty obvious to me that Trump has NPD, is evil, and dangerous, and you’re helping him to get away with it.

    Again though, I’ve really been enjoying all your videos except for this one.

  5. Authority does not come from a license. It comes from doing the right thing. So if showing what diagnosis a person would get if they got one , is the right thing, then they have the right. Trump has the power to negatively impact so many, so all this is a reaction by some of those feeling victimized. Because Trump was none of those individual's patient, he was not diagnosed.

  6. Neuropathy was removed from the DSM just as NPD is being considered for removal for the purpose of normalizing populations to these disorders. The elite like very messed up people because those are the easiest to control.

  7. Do I understand you to say that you cannot diagnose a person from afar and that you cannot really make a call when they are on your lap? What good are those in your profession? Who was the superstar psychiatrist who suggested that Jeffrey Epstein be taken off suicide watch? Tah-dah, that didn't work out well did it?

  8. Apparently you do not trust the ordinary person to see what is in front of their eyes. You don't have to be a "professional" to know a dangerous personality when you see one. You are using science to remove yourself from the real world. People are smart. People like you need to be warned about this man, and I don't care who does it.

  9. My apologies but we are saying doesn't make no sense so you're telling me if even you are a client and you're trying to get information if a person you're with could be narcissists you guys are not able to describe if they have it or you're not able to actually physically say they have it so then what's the point of you guys even having a job if this is the case and you're saying you don't like to call out narcissist on people that you don't know I'm pretty sure you called out narcissism to the man that killed his family with three kids you do not know him so practically what you're saying is contradicting yourself which is ridiculous

  10. Now your diagnosing ppl you never met.
    It's narcissistic to close down all factories & opportunities cuz your afraid of global warming even though those factories & businesses will open up in other countries & pay slave wages. That's what your Marxist Democrats want to do.
    I see you hate America & disrespect our president so move to another country already .

  11. Thanks to Donald Trump, Unemployment is low. There are two pro-life judges on the Supreme Court , our military veterans will receive better care. He stands against socialism. I ain't mad. Good video Sir.

  12. At least Trump isn't obsessed with war in other countries (as we all know WAR is a billion dollar business) like Bush and Obama. If you look at stupid things like why building 7 fell into its own footprint on 9/11 (when you compare that 1/3 of the building in Oklahoma was destroyed by a bomb (Timonthy McVie) and the building was still standing and all building 7 suffered from was a few small fires and possibly some flying debris from the twin towers and it was also broadcast on live television 30 minutes ahead that building 7 had collapsed before building 7 even fell) and why Bin Laden's body was dumped into the ocean before the media could take any video coverage or photos of Bin Laden's body it's pretty obvious that there are people in the U.S. government using their power and position as an opportunity to get extremely rich and to manipulate the America people and the world.

    As far as I'm concerned, Trump is doing a great job as president. Trump has some minor flaws but in general he's doing much much better than Clinton , Bush, or Obama.

  13. There is a well respected and accredited professional who has in video asserted that President Trump is with out a doubt, a Narcissist. Not that he has narcissistic tendencies, but that he in fact has NPD. This is really disturbing to me, b/c while I respect this Dr. and her work and have learned so much from her, (she is s clear and articulate) I can see how irresponsible and unprofessional her assertions are. Not only b/c of the reasons you give, but b/c I have made a point to look deeply into the current issues in politics including documents, and connecting the dots of evidence when one side or the other make assertions, it has become massively clear to me that many politicians are lying, distorting and misleading the public, against PT. There is an entire back narrative that is not even being looked at. THANK GOD President trump has the backbone, integrity (yes, integrity) and tough skin that he has!! Soon, the world will see just what good he is and has been doing. If a public figure or someone with authority and power shows blatant signs of some kind of Sociopathy, than I would want professionals to speak up, however, one should be extremely careful especially in the case of Narcissism. Narcissists project and Gasslight, manipulate, etc. Be careful you know who is doing the projecting. I understand many would say how can it be all his haters in politics and not him who is doing the projecting? Maybe we have been fooled for decades by the Deep state. Not all theories are false. Many are true conspiracy and we will all soon see this as plain as day. I know most will call me crazy, but President trump is indeed #DrainingTheSwamp

  14. 1 last thing – YES some behaviors are worrisome, HOWEVER those "strange" behaviors are understood in a different way to those who actually know the OTHER back narrative and what is going on behind the scenes. Mark my words – you will see … Either that, or he is ushering in the Anti Christ …. 😀

  15. The American people voted for President Trump and professionals discuss this topic as a form of projection. Decisions based on evidence are also dismissed as opinion. Would this even be a topic if President Trump lost the election ? Look at those who ran and are running against President Trump in the future. https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/genius-and-madness/200806/hillary-clinton-deranged-narcissist Same Author: https://williamtoddschultz.wordpress.com/

  16. One logical catch 22 is that if it can be argued that a trait of many narcissists is a sense of themselves being perfect and without blemish, then it would only be logical that many of those narcissists would not seek out the help of mental health professionals, as that would entail a personal objective honesty of themselves that they are simply not capable of. If they should be having problems in their lives, personally or professionally, then of course it would be someone else's fault, either due to incompetence or malicious intent, as they themselves are without fault. So if these people see themselves as perfect in mind, and they thus do not seek out help from a mental health professional, then it's only logical that they would never be diagnosed as having any problem whatsoever. As far as the issue concerning the 25th Amendment, it is a matter of which comes first, the chicken or the egg. It would take the professional suspicion of the President having a mental or physical disability that would justify the implementation of the 25th Amendment, while he couldn't be forced to undergo a mental health evaluation unless the 25th Amendment had already been invoked, so how could you invoke the 25th Amendment in the first place?

  17. You guys want to remain professional and I respect that to a point. So let's not diagnose him with a personality disorder officially, but his personality basically mimics some of these Cluster B disorders so closely that I have to pose a question: does it really matter? I would argue that taking into consideration how potentially dangerous these traits could be because of his position is also important. I was in a relationship with someone who I can't diagnose as a narcissist but it DID NOT MATTER since the qualities of his personality were so identical and damaging. I get that you guys want and indeed have a duty to be accurate in your diagnoses, but I don't. Every single criteria the DSM lists for NPD describes this guy perfectly. I personally don't care at this point wether he's a true narcissist or not. Close enough. Especially when my country and our lives are at stake. So I get that as professionals, you avoid diagnosing him for different reasons, but even having qualities of a narcissist at this level should be brought to the attention of those who don't understand how harmful it can be. I'm all for those who broke the Goldwater rule in this case. If it walks like a duck and talks like a duck. Why do you even have criteria if you aren't going to use it when it's important?

  18. I respect your channel but there is absolutely no way in everything that I have learned, as a layperson with an intellect and education, and as a person who has been victimized by narcissists, that Donald Trump is not a clear dark triad narcissist. He is a malignant narcissist. A sociopath? Possibly. I hope that you are eventually intending to say that despite all of these principles that are in place within the code of psychiatric and psychological professionalism, the Goldwater rule, that this man is clearly a narcissist. I believe that when there is a clear case of it, professionals have an obligation to the public well-being to say something. George Conway may be an amateur with respect to psychiatric diagnoses, but when even an amateur can make a clear argument for something being true and he has consensus almost every place from almost everyone, then I think it has validity.

    So now I’m at the point where you’re discussing APD and the necessary prerequisite, conduct disorder, and hoping that you know enough about Donald Trump’s childhood to know that he had it.

    Please see the section on Donald’s Behavioral issues:

    https://vocal.media/theSwamp/donald-trump-s-childhood

    NPD and APD ARE bad. I don’t understand what you’re saying. Almost every expert agrees that narcissists do not seek treatment, are notoriously difficult to fix if not impossible, and are extremely risky to both the therapist and any spouse who may go to therapy with them. I usually appreciate a levelheaded and measured approach to looking at things, but you are erring to an excess of fairness.

    I also want to add to this that your discussion of the fact that NPD almost didn’t make it into the DSM-V is solely because of Dr. Alan Frances, who suggested that NPD doesn’t meet the criteria because the people who have it aren’t impaired. They do well in life, they thrive, they succeed. Well, that’s because it is the only condition in the manual in which the people around the person who has it are the ones who wind up in therapy, shattered, damaged and unable to function. I would suggest that that criteria of it needing to cause impairment to the person who has it should be removed, at least with respect to personality disorders.

    Here is some evidence to support why this guy is dangerous. He makes enemies of our friends and friends of our enemies. He’s put children in prison at the border. He’s throwing them away from their parents who in many cases probably will never see them again. You are enabling. Completely enabling.

  19. I am of the mind that Cluster B Personality disorders are easily diagnosed for public figures. We have DTrump's records and books and personal recordings of him and people that have encountered him, to get a pretty good picture of what is going on. I have met people that are on the cluster B personality disorder spectrum, and there is no way I would call them "Normal human beings" They are predators. Emotionally, psychologically or physically…they are abusive and dangerous.

  20. President Trump is not running a popularity contest!President Trump is running our country better than any president from the last few election cycles starting with the Bill Clinton Disaster!!! We are one more Democratic President to turning into a communist/ socialist country, just look at Africa which is a disaster and Venezuela! This free wheeling open boarder, war mongering Left wing are out of control and very dangerous to the state of the world. They are corrupt and greedy and want to destroy what this country means and what our fore fathers built. God bless America and god bless our President!! And that is my opinion for all you haters!!!!

  21. Your discussion shows such intellect and well stated. President Trump is under obvious attack from all quarters. I believe it is nothing but political bias from his detractors whom I do not believe one iota.

  22. Donald Trump and his people totally trigger me.
    It's the lying, gaslighting, projection, and tripling down instead of being accountable.
    (I was in a relationship with someone just like him. )

    On his own – I could just brush him off.
    But as our leader and the fact that he has so many supporters – ugg.
    From what I see, the goal is power and control – and whatever it takes to achieve their goals.

    Thank you for your insights.

  23. Dr. Grande is doing random You Tube commenters and viewers a service by
    urging them to avoid making unqualified diagnoses and drawing conclusions
    about people who may seem to have psychological problems of one sort or
    another. I wish that more mental-health professionals who appear in
    videos that are posted on You Tube would be as cautious and reasonable
    in the statements they make about people whom they have never personally diagnosed,
    treated, or even conversed with.

  24. Why do people automatically label someone with a narcissistic disorder if they're not liked? Why is this "psychiatric diagnosis", usually the only one that is popularly most used on people who are targeted by the public? Is there actual proven medical health records of this certain trait or is this scientifically sounding off as fibbed proven based on people's opinions about those they dislike. It's easy to just label others who they don't really want to deal with, right? "Narcissist" label are the spotlight of the show so why not go bigger and label the whole entire world of having narcissistic so called behavior? I think this is a very ridiculous thing don't you know?

  25. From what I've read there is a strong genetic component to APD that has significant overlap with low IQ. For example people who have APD make up 4% of the general population but as much as 70-80% convicted felons serving two years or more in prison. Studies suggest prison populations average about a half a standard deviation below the general population of the country that the prison represents for example prison populations in the US average IQ is 90-92 from what I have read. While low IQ is not in the diagnotic crtliteria for APD, it probably should be. Trump has a significantly above average or genius IQ

  26. Well, you've always said you don't diagnose people who you've not met as a patient. Why would they ask that? Didn't know you, I guess.

  27. 1. In 1964, the politicians and media decided Goldwater was crazy , creating a stigma to make sure he lost the election to Johnson.
    2. Trump is a master at his own public relations. He IS the news every day whether you love him or hate him!

  28. Another reason i like watching your videos.. you said it… "Degree of error". Many people are under the delusion that certain things are perfect. Nothing is perfect. The perfect things simply are within a tighter degree of error. There will always be error.

  29. Dr. Lee never attempted to diagnose Donald Trump. In fact she makes a point of telling her audience that it's not a diagnosis, similar to the disclaimers you put at the beginning of your videos about specific individuals (Jodi Arias, Ted Bundy… etc). I actually read the book, and from the perspective of analysis it's actually quite similar to those videos you've made. Disclaimers about diagnosis not being on the table and all.

    I don't mean to be overly critical or anything, and I really enjoy your videos, but this is a serious error. If someone misrepresented the purpose of your analysis of Jodi Arias mental health, for example, as an attempt to diagnose her, I can't imagine you would be happy. Especially considering the fact that you EXPLICITLY said at the beginning of the video that your analysis is not an attempt to diagnose, just as Dr. Lee did with her book, and in her interviews. Idk how to fix it, but I think you should at least try.

  30. I’ve been around narcissist & psychopaths.. they have a trail of destruction behind them . If DT Is a narc/psychopath where is his destruction??? wouldn’t ppl have come out and said he had abuse, hurt or manipulated them ?!? Where are they ???

  31. Dr. Todd, stepping back from all this, observe that, right now, our society is infected with a philosophical sickness, that is deriving from feminism. I don't care precisely what you call it. Diversity, Racism, the multiple sexes, the bathroom controversy, the imploding of universities with liberalism issues, all this stuff has infected our whole society. The society is sick! Now here comes Trump, who recognizes this societal problem, and decides not to go down the rabbit hole in it like the rest of society is doing. So sick society says Trump is sick. No, it is society who is sick. And this whole analysis of Trump's personality is just another game the society is up to, just like this Ukraine scandal, or whether whites in America are privileged, or racist. Anyway, whatever personality traits trump has, the public recognized them and voted for them and they hit a grand slam. Trump has turned out to be a great president, really a genius, and the people who voted for him intuitively know what's going on and plan to vote for him again. The others feel threatened because he is calling them out on their obviously faulty attempts to infect the whole damn country with hormone shots and sex change operations.

  32. Bravo for acknowledging the professions shortcomings in diagnosing. Trumps diagnosis is about as accurate as the disgusting "diagnosis" of his youngest son as "autistic" for a few minutes at 3AM the night the election results were announced.
    Also big bravo for taking in Conway & those "professionals" who throw around diagnostic terminology to make themselves appear more important. Bravo, bravo, bravo. I wouldn't be sad if this presentation came out long ago or repeated many times in the future

  33. This concerns me which is more important, upholding the Goldwater rule, or protecting the public from a president that is a harm to self or others? Narcissists will only get diagnosed if they're forced. They don't see any problem with thier behaviors. But this also gives narcissists an excuse to expect people to be blind to thier abusive and negative cluster of. Such excuses as you don't have the right to judge me, etc. They expect you to ignore or behave as though they're not abusive or as though they're "normal". It's like a catch 22. You can't diagnose or label me, therefore you can't see me as abusive or abnormal and I won't ever get help or diagnosed so you must accept and deal with behaviors. Any normal person would be legally committed if they're a threat to themselves or others. It seems if someone lacks morals, ethics, empathy and remorse, it has a direct connection to corruption, abuse, harm. I've never heard of a cluster B personality living a moral, healthy and ethical life while still lacking empathy, morality and ethics.

  34. I know this is totally off topic but I'm trying to understand people who are obsessed with Disney and going to Disney World and Disney Land. Any insight? Possible future video?

  35. I wouldnt say that Trump speaks word salad, but his intonation and sentence structures, even choice of words, sounds like a 5th grader's essay that was written the night before it was due

  36. Great video overall, but there's one thing wrong here. The 25th amendment is not about forcing the president to undergo a mental health evaluation — it immediately causes the vice president to take over the presidency. Invoking the amendment (which can only be done by the president himself, or by the vice president and a majority of the cabinet) requires that they already know the president to be incapacitated.

  37. The problem is that people with NPD are rarely diagnosed because they do not seek help. These people naturally believe there is nothing wrong with them and that any issues going on are everyone elses fault!

  38. Your painting the narc out to be not so bad. People…..the narcissist and sociopath is very DANGEROUS. I know because I have an entire family of them, parents and grandparents included in that. Their greatest desire is not just getting narc supply, it's inflicting human suffering. Their number one easy target is children!!! Their very nature is evil. Don't let anyone convince you otherwise.

  39. Do no harm! This means that doctors gotta evaluate the individual the best they can. And even then that's just to find out if they really have diagnosis that doc's chose. They gotta hypothesize and then test. Those psychiatrists aren't doing that and it's not good. For example I don't know why they are doing this. I could speculate that they are brainwashed, or that they are acting out of emotional empathy rather than cognitive empathy. Anyways, Good video!

  40. There is a mass hysteria phenomenon among people who fear Donald Trump, in my opinion, and they all want to be on the same band wagon. If it weren’t him, it would be someone else.

  41. Dr Grande sorry I could not get three quarters through this one and I highly regard your scientific approach and have viewed countless topics…..this one clearly points out the glaring uncharted areas science has not found away to mathematically measure..this is where Carl jung has pointed out the differences between judges and perceivers… just because science has not validated something does not mean it isn't. DONALD TRUMP is the poster child of a grandiose narcissist …most intuitive perceptive types who understand Narcissism could bet everything they have on this one and cash in.it is as plain as day to us..here is a visual if science was viewed as a fishing net and the netting measurable substantial knowledge. The gaps are much larger and for that point they are just as relevant for giving information as the areas already measurable.what science knows is only a roadway map of a huge continent of knowledge yet untapped…

  42. I have gotten so much help from your videos. I appreciate your straight forward analysis. However this video disturbed me. You have stated in previous videos that people with NPD and APD can and are dangerous. I found those warnings to be validating and It helped me to sort some things out so that I am able to make better boundaries. Here however you make statements to the contrary. I understand that diagnosing people from a distance is problematic for all the reasons you stated, however grouping people with NPD and APD as the same as other people “just going about their lives” is not only contrary to other statements you’ve made, it can have the affect of minimizing these disorders for people and organizations affected by them. Pls clarify.

  43. I’m wondering if you’re able to identify behaviors indicative of amphetamine use? In regards to Trump, not suggesting illegal drug use, just observing some behaviors and content of tweets (consistently at 3-4 am)? He doesn’t seem to sleep much.

  44. Diagnosing someone who's not one's client is unethical under the Goldwater rule, and revealing a diagnosis of one's client is also unethical. So, essentially, if a mental health professional suggests anything about the mental health of any real person that MHP is acting unethically. So, I guess…just keep your mouth shut.

  45. Could you do a video on examples of how symptoms of a mental disorder need to be presented and how severe they need to be in order to make a diagnosis?

  46. Thank you for the refreshing and impartial explanation of Trump's behavior. You did a great job of remaining professional by explaining how mental illness is diagnosed.

  47. It doesn't take a psychiatric degree to tell that Trump has NPD. I could pick it up before his inauguration and it didn't take the DSM to help me either.

  48. I had a person a detaining person b experience. Person a was aggressive and person b was submissive. When the cops showed up, it turned out person b had stolen a purse and person a saw it. What I saw was person a illegally detaining someone. You just never know until you're directly involved

  49. I think factors like being convicted of fraud, accused of assaults, friends in prison, putting kids in cages, matters.

  50. If George Conway can diagnose Trump with these things, then I could also diagnose him with Paranoid Personality Disorder as well!
    Hey George, you wanna maybe retract your diagnosis yet, and leave the diagnosing to the pros??

  51. Dear.dr.Grande…..i like the tap dance shoes you have on for this topic……there is a joke in there …..i am not a medical professional. So i just am listening and learning……cause my opinion is completely bias so all i can do is listening to your much respected take on thinga as always much lobe to you

  52. Conway is stating the obvious. The question is: Why did his wife work for the guy? What does that say about his own mental health?

  53. Dr. Grande, we need a video on WTH is wrong with Mr. Kelly Anne Conway (George). What kind of spouse would behave in a way that could jeopardize the other spouse's job? Why would they do it? What is the motivation? Is George Conway so insecure and jealous about his wife's career success that he would do this to his wife and his children??? How can a marriage survive this betrayal and damage?

  54. I have read Dr. Bandy Lee's book, and she does state that she is not diagnosing him, just as Dr. Grande does at the beginning of all his videos that involve real people. She does provide certain disorders he has traits of, but her main point is not to diagnose, but to warn that his behavior can be dangerous to others and why.

    Btw, Thanks Dr. Grande for all of your amazing analysis on various topics! I could (and do) listen to you all day!

  55. Dr Grande is a genuine real doctor and has a logical.approach in all his videos. I learn something everytime I watch his content.

  56. Are you saying that an educated, scientifically literate person, though not an MD, who has read the list of symptoms of diabetes, for instance, or plantar fasciitis, or some other common disorder, on the Mayo Clinic website, doesn't have a reasonably good chance of making an accurate diagnosis based on that information? I would highly dispute that conclusion.

    Computer programs are now being used to diagnose. They follow the same check lists that any educated person can follow.

    Are you saying that the knowledge base of psychological disorders can only be used by a priestly class to understand the behavior of powerful political figures? Is identifying Trump's malignant narcissism "weaponizing" psychological diagnosis–or is it using it as a tool to understand and predict the behavior of someone whose behavior affects millions of people?

  57. Do you see any irony in the fact that you yourself do many analyses of famous cases that you yourself have not treated? You usually qualify them with "I've not treated them myself, but…" and then you go ahead offering your analysis of their behaviors. That's no different from what people analyzing Trump's narcissism are doing.

  58. How are you on the one hand saying that NPD may not be real and yet you have dozens of videos describing and analyzing it? Then you scold other mental health professionals who use it to diagnose Trump. And for Trump, we have much more evidence than merely his persona. We have his marital history, his business history and well as his persona pronouncements for the camera. It would be interesting to analyze the roots of your inconsistency on this issue.

  59. I think Donald Trump is a MK Ultra mind controlled puppet. I also think many of the presidents have been broken down by the wicked global elite with the horrific process of MK Ultra mind control.

  60. does Trump behave differently than any other president has ? If we can agree that he is different, then perhaps we can agree that there is something wrong with him.

  61. Dr. Grande, It is HIGHLY unethical to diagnose public figures to that you have not administered individual therapy.

    You should make that video

  62. A person punching someone on the street can not be diagnosed based on one incident. Trump on the other hand has been observed in many situations.
    Pathological lying.
    Un empathetic toward the Kurds
    Delusional God Complex
    Self aggrandizing
    Vindictive
    Non conforming
    Admires strong dictaters
    Etc etc etc
    There's more than enough information through observation.

  63. I think, there are certain people, that we don't need a medical diagnosis, to know there is something very wrong! It doesn't require a label on it, to stay away from it! I'm sure we can agree, no one wants all rattlesnakes killed but, in the same regard, no one wants a rattlesnake in their proximity…

  64. I admire and appreciate that you are so ethical that you disapprove of mental health professionals making public diagnoses of the President but the way that you present your views in this video leaves me unable to determine whether you are a Trump admirer and supporter or a disapproving Trump critic. I really can't tell whether you like him or dislike him. You are so devoted to being fair and balanced that your inner feelings on him are completely concealed which in today's world is amazing. Very few people can do that in this age of hyper social media. I have to be honest though and admit that it disturbs me slightly that you may approve of Trump. I don't know IF you do…but I also don't know if you don't. As I say, I can't tell whether you do or not and I understand why you wisely choose to avoid that discussion but you have left me perplexed and baffled. Still, I admire your sense of ethics and integrity.

  65. Dr. Grande, a voice of rationality and cool headed fairness in the vast and untamed wilderness of the internet. ☮️👍

  66. People have been polarized by Donald Trump from the beginning of his announcement. It seemed to me that people made up their minds very quickly and they seemed to react to him generally on the basis of their own personal (previous) political persuasion. If Hillary Clinton hadn't been such an equally contentious personality -most traditional Democratic supporters probably wouldn't have given Trump a second thought. I've certainly never been a "supporter" ~but I wasn't prepared to write him off -simply because he was a Republican -or cheer for Clinton -because she was "a Democrat." The developments of the last few months (his initial endorsement of Wikileaks -and then his pardoning of war crimes) -his artless attempt to strong arm the Ukrainians -and his subsequent "damage control" after the fact -and the fact that an innocent publisher (Julian Assange -who is actually dying…) faces 170 years (!!) in prison if he is successfully extradited to the U.S. (because he published the truth?!?! ~in another (sovereign) country…OMG…) ~rings alarm bells around the "free world" about the extent and trajectory of the "influence" of the U.S! People are looking for rational explanations for his behavior. He seems to lie with impunity, and whether he is "unwell" (For the record: no disrespect to anyone with a genuine disorder) I think that someone who insists on slapping a giant "T" on everything he touches could easily be logically perceived as "a bit of a narcissist" Donald Trump mocked a physically handicapped reporter -publicly, he's on record as referring to Rosie O'Donnel as "a pig" (we all know we could go on and on -and on) -at this stage I'm not too concerned about his "feels" -and I'm wondering why anyone would be? Whether we like it or not -his "state of mind" has implications for people all around the world. I apologize for taking up so much space -but I'm not keen on videoing myself. I hope he's not sick, -I hope he has a conscience about Julian Assange's immoral incarceration and releases him -today! The bottom line is that if he is guilty of "high crimes and misdemeanors" -it does not matter why -only that he is. And thank-you -once again for another rational and expert opinion. Peace and Love.

  67. Whats is the meaning of "authorized"? any quack can get a psychologist diploma and in fact, a psychologist is not even a doctor but more or less the same as massagist or barber. this is why word client is used instead of word patient which is used by psychiatrists. So psychologist diagnosis is worth absolutely nothing legally just same as any random person opinion. but the diagnosis of a psychiatrist can be used with legal consequences.
    What is the meaning of "client" is this one who is requesting the diagnosis or one who signed a legal agreement and negotiated pay rate ?

    Finally, disorders cannot be diagnosed by anyone but the clients themselves this rules out any egosyntonic "disorders" because if a person likes his "disorder" it is not a disorder
    disorders are exclusively when a person identifies it as a disorder.
    So in case of diagnosis, a psychologist can only identify personality type but the client has to add word disorder to that label himself.
    This way it is ethically correct to diagnose people over distance but only without labeling it as a disorder unless you see that person is willing to get rid of that personality.

  68. 63 million people decided they like his personality traits. We're perceptive too. We elected a leader. Not an everyday normal person.

  69. All this responcability gibberish is about with holding aid to the. Poor punishing the poor while cuddling the rich . Of cource trump is unfit for office and only got in there because of his money and the overall ignorance of American society

  70. In the case where a person has passed on and extensive biographical information exists (assuming that the sources cited in the biographical information are correct and truthful), is it possible or permissible to diagnose? I'm talking about celebrities like Marilyn Monroe, Gia Carangi, and Princess Diana who have been discussed as having BPD.

    Or, a person you know very, very well. For instance, I know exactly how my mother thinks because I have over thirty-eight years experience in her telling me exactly how she is thinking about everything.

  71. Thank you for your level-headed assessment, D. G!

    I'm not a fan of Trump or any mortal man, but I can see that the media and co. gaslight Trump on a 24/7 basis.

  72. Funny how so many of the left/Democrats didn't really have any issue with Trump before he ran and became President.. He had the Apprentice for 12 seasons on NBC, many loved that show and thought Trump was funny and totally Okay.. Then all of a sudden he is Hitler and going to kill the world.. Now that is a disconnect with reality. Those people are the ones that need a closer look for mental issues.

    These so called Mental health professionals like Lee, they clearly fall into the category of not liking him personally and his politics. So they try to use their "authority" to try and smear him. Only ending up looking like charlatans IMO.. If you cannot separate your own personal beliefs from factual diagnosis etc. You should have your license revoked.
    Hence the Goldwater rule.

    I guess 63 Million Americans then prefer a Narcissistic President. Does that mean they are also all crazy. Well if you listen to the Democrats and leftist media. YES that is what they think.
    63 million voters became white supremacists, narcissists and psychopaths overnight during that election. The "Basket of deplorables".. You know the people that do NOT run out into the streets screaming at the sky because the other political party won. The ones that instead go to work and do not commit violent demonstrations…
    Now tell me again which people need to have closer examination..

    That is my take on it. I am Canadian BTW, making a point of I do not have a dog in this hunt.

  73. As long as you're commenting on political matters, maybe you'd care to comment on the insidious state of cognitive dissonance within our society.

  74. I so love your approach. As another viewer said, you are neutral in the politics of Trump, you’re just straight forward…..voice of reason. The horrible realization of what people twitter tends lead people to believe all that’s said as long as it’s against Trump, is true. If any of what I just typed out makes any sense, thank you!

  75. Despite what you say I feel in Donald Trumps case it is blatantly clear he is narcissistic. Does it interfere with his job? I can’t say. But it certainly doesn’t do our nation any good when he is constantly calling people names! It’s a embarrassment to the entire nation. No, we can’t diagnose without having proper credentials and have him as a patient/client. And you are right when you say, “does it really matter?” I find your vlogs very informative and I have learned so much, but I have lived and worked with NPD so much I feel Trump is the poster boy.

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